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RioBanchee

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PostSubject: DKP's for the Guild   Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:30 pm

DKP is an old term for you youngsters, meaning Dragon Kill Points; Where one can earn points/ fake currency for yourself. Which can be used in a Guild Bank (Normally in-game); however I had this option available in-guild option as well, that I was apart of in EQ2.

Example: Raids- everyone seems to get an item you already have or do not need for your class/avatar, you can sell or add to DKP Bank (Normally your earn an DKP for adding to Guild Bank), never-the less; The idea is to help one another gain gear and weapons little bit faster. It helps to become a powerful faction in the game, when it comes to Guild building and leveling up your Avatar....

You earn DKP by GOOD deeds. Helping a fellow guild member or doing something productive for the Guild overall growth.

Important: Going back to the raid example, if you were originally apart of the raid, and there is a item that someone is not needing, you can have 1st crack at it, however you cannot take that item and then resell it. It will defeat the purpose of growing the guild and advancing the guild.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this?
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Jessa Amitey

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:59 pm

Sounds like a greet idea, I can't see why not.
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Traxex Wraw

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:54 pm

I agree with this completely. Very good point.
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Rizula Bantan

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:24 pm

Ok I THINK I understand the system, but im not sure. WHen you donate an item to the bank, you get some DKP that you can spend to take an item out of the bank? Or do a good deed to earn DKP to get an item from the bank? Will certain items be worth certain amounts of DKP?

Please let me know if I'm way out in space or on the right track
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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:52 am

lets make an example, if i get use like 4 hours killing the same monster again again for a item which i used for crafting and then donate it to the guild, will i get DKPs ?
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RioBanchee

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:21 pm

All great question's. However all ground rules I would think would be up to HC. The my experience with DKP's, there was a link on our home page, of the old guild; where you could cash in your DPK, as well as see how many you had to spend. From here, the honor system took place. Where you could go back into the game, and cash in your DKP for the item. IMPORTANT: We banned and kicked members immediately have they did not honor, the "Honor System". It was a great and mature guild that I was apart of, and this rarely happen. Normally new members who did not know the rules. the trash was taken out immediately.

I would encourage the idea that "ALL", would need to take a class on this, prior of access to the Guilds Bank.

Examples of earning DKP's:

1. Yes, by adding content to the guilds bank, whether crafting material or other item. You earn a DKP.
(Normally, it is tagged who donated item to Bank, a follow up "mail" was sent to our Guilds Treasurer (in-game), let him know so the site would be updated with new DKP)
2. Mission lvl's: Say you are helping a guild member retain an item, which will allow him to breathe under water (Full Time); this mission takes 6-7 hours, this mission DPK value at 4 currency. Where, harvesting an item which may take 1 hr, is valued at 1 DKP.
3. Mentoring. In EQ2 (Ever Quest2), if I was working with my mentor, say he was at a level 60 and I would be at level 23; EQ2 allowed the Mentor to transfer some of his kill points to me, so I could Level up faster. This had great value, when it came to the DKP and Guild goals. So in retrospect this was worth 8 DKP to our guild.
4. Out-of the Game: example, helping someone with a WIKI page, mentoring more than 2 Padawans, etc.
5. Guild Exp: In EQ2, you could go on Guild missions, which the Experience points would go to the Guild it's self. This was rated the highest DKP. Our goal was to be a faction to contend with. thence you would earn 12 DKP, depending on lvl of mission.

Note: People can and will abuse the system, especially if strong guidelines are not in place, system does not get update on daily (2-3times daily), and people do not get power trips!!

Fact: We were able to get someone who is new to the guild or avatar; and get them to lvl 30 within 1-2weeks, at a play time of 60hrs in no time. With all the up to date gear, weapons and potions. I have seen this system work and I have seen other guilds try this with no success. It depends on the members. However, my in-sight is that if you have strong members, teamwork and a common goal of moving the guild forward and not just yourself; the ROI (Return on Investment) out weighs all.

Your thoughts?
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Akua

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:55 pm

Agreed, we should implement it
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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:44 pm

Thus is a weary good idea, maybe the guild should find a mmo and try out this idea.

But is there a price on a specific amount let me say.

i will need 4 health potions, how much dkp whoud that cost ?

i need some new epic bracers how much would that cost ?

I need matiarls to make a new sword, how much wohuld that cost ?
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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:59 pm

well, I think it's a good idea
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Vyynn Randos

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:11 pm

I'm absolutely against the DKP system.

Having been a big WoW player for several years now, I've had the dubious pleasure of having been a member of a variety of guilds, from the extreme casual to the insane hardcore.

While not all utilized the DKP system or an equivalent 'guild currency', I found the ones that DID had a hard time bringing new members into the fold.

Why? Because unless severe alterations and rules are put into place, DKP is, in essence, a flawed system. It doesn't reward skill or other intagible, but just as arguably neccesary, qualities essential to a game. It rewards those who PLAY the game the most.

Example. Say we award DKP for attending 'raids' and for downing 'bosses'. The members who have been with the guild from the start, or earlier, are going to have a repository of points saved up, outbidding fresh members at every turn for loot or other rewards. The new players are unable to acclimate or contribute, because the veterans aquire even more power and wealth while the newer members suffer.

The guild I run has a very simple system, which has been praised for its fairness: rewards and loot is distributed in a simple need before greed fashion, unless it would obviously benefit one member to an extreme amount and the other competitors only slightly. Overall, it strengthens the guild.

In my opinion, it's an extremely counter-productive system, and my full recomendation is to NEVER institue DKP or a system like it. I have no problems with rewarding members with 'medals' or other such guild rewards, but an actual guild currency that affects the way out guild interacts with the game should never see the light of day.

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"Secret, shall I tell you? Grand Master of the Jedi Order, I am. Won this job in a raffle I did, think you? 'How did you link that, how did you link that, Master Mispir?' Master Jephos links these things. His job, it is."
-Jephos Mispir

Quote :
"If the enemy is going to kill you with your own weapon, they should have have to beat you to death with it because it's out of ammo."
-Vyynn Randos
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Traxex Wraw

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:01 am

But Vyynn, you need to realize that new members would get somthing for nothing! I'd just think of the DKP system as this: If you go on the quest with people, you share the rewards as equally as possible to the people who went on the quest with you. Then, save some for the guild. Newcomers would abuse this and not even help out. They would just get somthing for nothing.
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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:56 am

Vyynn Randos wrote:
I'm absolutely against the DKP system.

Having been a big WoW player for several years now, I've had the dubious pleasure of having been a member of a variety of guilds, from the extreme casual to the insane hardcore.

While not all utilized the DKP system or an equivalent 'guild currency', I found the ones that DID had a hard time bringing new members into the fold.

Why? Because unless severe alterations and rules are put into place, DKP is, in essence, a flawed system. It doesn't reward skill or other intagible, but just as arguably neccesary, qualities essential to a game. It rewards those who PLAY the game the most.

Example. Say we award DKP for attending 'raids' and for downing 'bosses'. The members who have been with the guild from the start, or earlier, are going to have a repository of points saved up, outbidding fresh members at every turn for loot or other rewards. The new players are unable to acclimate or contribute, because the veterans aquire even more power and wealth while the newer members suffer.

The guild I run has a very simple system, which has been praised for its fairness: rewards and loot is distributed in a simple need before greed fashion, unless it would obviously benefit one member to an extreme amount and the other competitors only slightly. Overall, it strengthens the guild.

In my opinion, it's an extremely counter-productive system, and my full recomendation is to NEVER institue DKP or a system like it. I have no problems with rewarding members with 'medals' or other such guild rewards, but an actual guild currency that affects the way out guild interacts with the game should never see the light of day.





I agree with Vyynn i too am a big WoW player and found this system to be ineffective and unfair one fact for sure is that we shouldnt have any type of loot system or point system Pre-game. and i stand by my comment, if you want to be fair then run Loot Council in a guild its way more effective and no one really wants to join a guild as a new member if they're running DKP, just sayin i think vyynn knows what im talking about.
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Sirj

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PostSubject: for the guild   Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:49 am

To be honest, in all my years spent across the MMO universe (so to speak) I have never once actually used the DKP system so I can't really comment on it. The only real time it ever came up was in WoW when my guilds would discuss what to do with loot and such. All I can say is that every time it was brought up the vast majority of the guild voted against it.

Like I said earlier, I have never tried it myself so I have no idea. I am willing to try anything once and if it works, it works, if it doesn't, then we move on to something different. I think it best that we wait until we know a little more about how the loot system as a whole is handled in ToR before we jump to any conclusions.
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Vyynn Randos

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:35 pm

Master Traxex Wraw wrote:
But Vyynn, you need to realize that new members would get somthing for nothing! I'd just think of the DKP system as this: If you go on the quest with people, you share the rewards as equally as possible to the people who went on the quest with you. Then, save some for the guild. Newcomers would abuse this and not even help out. They would just get somthing for nothing.

Then perhaps the fault lies with the way we recruit people. In my WoW guild, I have never accepted someone into the guild who I wasn't ready to accept on faith. If our recruitment is so broad that it allows unsavory and untrustworthy types in, then we need to make it more stringent.

And beyond that, Trax, not all newcomers are so eager to take advantage.

_______________________


Quote :
"Secret, shall I tell you? Grand Master of the Jedi Order, I am. Won this job in a raffle I did, think you? 'How did you link that, how did you link that, Master Mispir?' Master Jephos links these things. His job, it is."
-Jephos Mispir

Quote :
"If the enemy is going to kill you with your own weapon, they should have have to beat you to death with it because it's out of ammo."
-Vyynn Randos
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Traxex Wraw

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:38 pm

True, but you have seen how many spies have tried to join the guild, right?
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Vyynn Randos

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:55 pm

Who are then caught fairly quickly, Trax. And just because I'm absoutely against DKP or any currency system doesn't mean I'm totally resistant to some other system that is a safeguard against unsavory types, like a probation system.

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Quote :
"Secret, shall I tell you? Grand Master of the Jedi Order, I am. Won this job in a raffle I did, think you? 'How did you link that, how did you link that, Master Mispir?' Master Jephos links these things. His job, it is."
-Jephos Mispir

Quote :
"If the enemy is going to kill you with your own weapon, they should have have to beat you to death with it because it's out of ammo."
-Vyynn Randos
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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:35 pm

Trax we dont know who are spies and what not but it gets dealt with that has nothing to do with a DKP system DKP is Loot in a PvE setting it doesnt benefit recruiting or anything else its a loot system
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RioBanchee

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:28 pm

Having a Guild mind set of "Throw them up against the wall, and see who sticks"; is not wise to any strong Guild out there. One of the main reasons DKP do not work with other guilds, which is what I have observed:One word "MEMBERS".

I'm not saying this has happen with anyone's experience, thus far; however I have watch other guilds try this in vain. I have experience this with "much" success and the ROI (Return on Investment), which out weighs the negatives.

Why, because the "negatives" are weeded out immediately and backed with strong guide lines. Zero tolerance of abuse. Also why New members do not have access to GB (Guild Bank) until 3-6months after playing with members, who are tenured. Even though this is a virtual world, one can see through someone's personal character quit easily. However, people become their environment; so strong Leadership, mentors and members determined the out come if DKP will work or not. Simply put... It depends on if everyone is on the same page or not. This can be done easily and immediately in the beginning and through gaming. (some listed above already)

Over-all, I hope AL can utilize this strategy with success. everyone can receive ROI, Guild ranking quickly and effectively; if done correctly and respectfully. Only you can add the Human Element......Food for Thought.
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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:39 pm

I say its too early to think of having a Loot system when we dont even for 1 Have Set Raid Leaders for 2 we no1 even has the knowledge of the games Pve and how or if the raids will even be implamented with set loot like in WoW. So i say we wait and end the discussion until we get the game.
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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:02 pm

very good ideea indeed!read everything,from possible rules and concepts and i think that the guild leadership should look into it.
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Vyynn Randos

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PostSubject: Re: DKP's for the Guild   Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:34 am

I've said it for a while now, and I agree, harb. There are just some things we can't and SHOULDN'T do or decide on until more information about the game is released. I still stand by my Absolute No DKP stance, but making a decision now would not be optimal.

_______________________


Quote :
"Secret, shall I tell you? Grand Master of the Jedi Order, I am. Won this job in a raffle I did, think you? 'How did you link that, how did you link that, Master Mispir?' Master Jephos links these things. His job, it is."
-Jephos Mispir

Quote :
"If the enemy is going to kill you with your own weapon, they should have have to beat you to death with it because it's out of ammo."
-Vyynn Randos
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